Column Shift People, Halp!

"TylerLinner" (tylerlinner1) 11/11/2016 at 15:33 • Filed to: HELP, COLUMN SHIFTER, SHIFTER REBUILD, F-100

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Last year a spacer inside my steering column expatriated to the ground, and since I was lazy, the situation ended in my shift collar and column flange literally grinding each other into dust with every shift, seen above. Now I have new parts, but they don’t fit! What to do...

The truck is a 1965 Ford F-100 3-spd manual and those are the new parts from LMC Truck. I believe the male shift collar (left) rotates inside the female column flange (right), but I’m not 100% sure since the parts I took out were far beyond “worn”.

Here they are, pressed together as tight as I dared push- they don’t appear to fit. I asked on the book face, posted on a forum, and phoned LMC, all with no luck.

I feel like I have two options here: file and sand down the shift collar until it fits the flange well, or try to find OEM used parts at possibly great effort and cost. Do any of you have experience you’d like to share about column shifters?

RallyWrench > TylerLinner 11/11/2016 at 15:40

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Paging RamblinRover, Ford column shift ninja...

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > TylerLinner 11/11/2016 at 15:43

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It’s pretty much the same steering column as my Ranchero (Falcon), as seen here:

It’s not really that complicated, but the parts also don’t fit that tightly to one another. The collar should be further down, the spacer/turn signal ring should fit *much* further down. Are you sure the spacer isn’t upside-down?

crowmolly > TylerLinner 11/11/2016 at 15:49

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Where’s Ramblin’ at? This is his jam

TylerLinner > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 11/11/2016 at 15:50

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Thanks for the reply. The “mockup” doesn’t even include the actual column inside- I just wanted to slide it over to make it kinda look normal. So I’m not worried about spacing just yet.

I just poked around and I’m sure that is the correct orientation of the flange. It’s the same orientation as the parts that came off the truck, and if I flip it over nothing mates up at all.

TylerLinner > crowmolly 11/11/2016 at 15:51

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He’s here now!

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > TylerLinner 11/11/2016 at 15:52

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Okay. Yeah, I’m not seeing any indication the shift collar itself is wrong, but I also don’t know why the spacer/signal mount ring wouldn’t be going. If there’s a different version of the signal mount ring used by auto vs. manual columns, that could be your whole problem. That might be what to look into.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > TylerLinner 11/11/2016 at 15:57

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As a further note, look a little closer at your exploded drawing. I can see spider teeth drawn inside the ring on the auto spacer, and none on the manual shifter. Ignore the fact that the spacer and ring are shown with the same diagram number in the drawing for auto and manual, because they are absolutely different in the case of the collar (shift indicator on auto) and are drawn differently.

10:1 your problem is that that’s an auto spacer with your manual collar.

TylerLinner > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 11/11/2016 at 16:04

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Hmm. Since I have this all apart, I should ask. The black piece doesn’t rotate with the shift lever, does it? So if I’m correct, the two new pieces rotate in relation to one another?

The pieces are identical to the old ones except for a slightly larger slot for the turn signal stalk to stick out of. And, from the diagram above, the part numbers are the same from manual to auto.

TylerLinner > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 11/11/2016 at 16:06

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The old one has the ribs/teeth inside as well- it wasn’t worn down enough that I can’t see them clearly.

Ugh. If this is a problem of the wrong part, I can’t figure out what would be different.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > TylerLinner 11/11/2016 at 16:16

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I mentioned regarding the diagram that the part numbers are lying. At the very least, the auto collar has a tab on it to indicate what gear you’re in - which means different part. That being said, I don’t know what all the differences would be. I don’t think on the falcon the shifter sleeve actually moves clear of the column, but the manuals do move the internal sleeve a bit further up and down. I can also state that from memory, I think my steering column’s outer sleeve looks more like the one shown in your diagram for manual.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > TylerLinner 11/11/2016 at 16:19

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Supposing that nobody used wrong parts tailored to fit in the past, I don’t really know. Does your old (worn) turn signal collar fit with the new shift sleeve? I did notice that the turn signal setup looks like it’s a little different between the two, and that the signal collar has a place in it to attach the shift indicator clear plastic. If that pair of detents is in your new part, probably an auto collar. If not, then something hinky and FORD is going on.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > TylerLinner 11/11/2016 at 16:22

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I believe the signal collar is fixed in place, but it’s been a while since I took mine apart. Needs to index to the outer housing of the column, obviously, if that’s the case. That indexing might be something hanging you up.

TylerLinner > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 11/11/2016 at 16:32

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Old flange + new collar = Fit

New flange + old collar = Fit if I put some pressure on them.

I think the collar was made from a non-original tool because it doesn’t have the number stampings. I can’t really measure them against the old versions since they’re so worn.

I see what you mean about the different parts between manual/auto.

It appears that the sleeve does not slide up and down the column, from looking kind of closely. The lever seems to pivot on its pin, and slide the inner column/shaft up and down against the spring at the bottom.

I don’t know what you mean about the signal collar (edit: the flange?), clear plastic and detents.

There’s defintely something fucky happening here, and my suspicion is that it’s due to the remanufacturing process. If nothing ends up fitting I might order some Bronco parts to see if they’re the same, but made better.

TylerLinner > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 11/11/2016 at 16:39

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Assuming “signal collar” and “column flange” (LMC’s name) are the same thing...

The column flange is apparently stationary with the outer steering column, and the shift collar indexes with the inner steering column shaft.

I could go put this all back together as it was and bench-test it, but the issue still stands that the new parts don’t fit together.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > TylerLinner 11/11/2016 at 16:44

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Yes, the inner shaft gets pulled up and down by the ball on the tip of the shifter rod. That shifter collar only rotates in one plane, as you’d assume.

For a later Ford, here are the shift indicator and clear plastic:

The indiicator needle attaches to the shift collar, and the indicator scale (the PRND32) attaches to the signal/retainer collar. ON your age of pickup there are little holes that the plastic of the indicator scale attaches with *if* it’s one for an auto.

Here’s an auto shifter collar, one for a Falcon (courtesy falconparts.com):

And here’s a manual one:

The center actually appears to be a different depth(?), though most of the differences are related to having a lock to click into the gears, which is handled at the top of the column instead of by detents in the trans. Which is why I held the teeth in the flange suspect.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > TylerLinner 11/11/2016 at 16:48

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Right now, I’m leaning towards the idea that if your old part looks the same as the new part looks the same as the auto part in the picture, that around ‘65 it’s possible that Ford decided to use more similar parts between auto and manual, and just set them up a little differently. That would lead to an aftermarket supplier having less leeway to get things wrong, and if the aftermarket quality is Fo Shit...

TylerLinner > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 11/11/2016 at 16:50

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Oh, ok. Autos are super foreign to me- even more foreign than column shifter workings. :)

Neither of my collars has that cutout for the needle. They both look like the bottom (black) one. So it appears I at least have manual specific parts.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > TylerLinner 11/11/2016 at 17:02

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Knowing as I do that the old parts I took straight off my column are hard to get back together exactly right, and that the horn ring I got will require me to set the horn retainer at a different height than the original horn button I had, very little about fucky fit in Ford columns surprises me.

TylerLinner > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 11/11/2016 at 17:08

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I guess I’ll get out the sandpaper then. Thanks for the wisdom!

Rust and Dust - Oppositelock Forever > TylerLinner 11/11/2016 at 17:15

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...I just threw away a good ‘66 F100 3 on the tree column on Tuesday (switched to C6 floor shift and an Ididit column). Metal dumpster was emptied yesterday  :(

TylerLinner > Rust and Dust - Oppositelock Forever 11/11/2016 at 17:18

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Why would you do that to meeeee

This is why I hoard. This is it.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > TylerLinner 11/11/2016 at 17:19

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I mean, I don’t necessarily endorse the sandpaper, but if by observation the new collar is what it should be and the new flange is *probably* off but otherwise correct, I don’t know what else you can do.

TylerLinner > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 11/11/2016 at 17:21

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I know, and it’ll feel weird messing up a $30 part. Hopefully it works out. Seems like everyone else swaps to a floor shifter.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > TylerLinner 11/11/2016 at 17:25

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Not I. I converted my Ranchero’s cloumn shift to have ~1/4" more up and down movement so I could shift three gates with it instead of two - hence four on the tree. The smart thing might actually have been to try to find bits from a Falcon Econoline four-on-the-tree, but I didn’t know about that at the time. At any rate, I added an adjustable balance spring, made new levers for the bottom gating, spacers, ground on the selector puck some, and otherwise made it able to shift four +R instead of just three.

All that is why Crowmolly and TFritch thought of me first.

I think I need to replace the collar at some point, though, because the inner insert that helps center the collar around the inner column cracked in the process of me Doing Things. So it’s not as self-centering as it’s supposed to be.

TylerLinner > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 11/11/2016 at 17:32

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Damn, that’s insane and lovely. I applaud your work.

What ever happened to that green, late 50's Continental you posted about months ago?

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > TylerLinner 11/11/2016 at 17:44

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I’ve still got it. It’s actually a “Lincoln Landau Sedan”, which the year immediately prior would have been a “Lincoln Capri Landau Sedan”. The Capri was the entry level Lincoln, the Premiere was the slightly-dressed-up one, and the Continental was the same sheet metal with a bunch of different badges and grilles and lights and so on. By the time ‘58 rolled around the Capri wasn’t even getting badging to indicate the name, and officially a ‘59 model non-Premiere is nameless, though a lot of dealers/etc. were still calling it a Capri and that’s what it’s titled as. The entry level was axed in ‘60, and then they really confused things by de-escalating the Continental sub-brand in ‘61, making ALL Lincolns Continentals.

It’s waiting for me to be further along with the Ranchero, more or less, and to finish setting up some new under-cover space to put it up on cribbing under the subframes.. It needs me to use the very fancy brake and sheet metal supplies at work to make repair pieces for the rocker panels... which as it is a 5200-5400lb unibody are structural and not to be tackled lightly.

TylerLinner > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 11/11/2016 at 17:53

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That is absurdly confusing. I’m glad at least somebody understands!

I can’t imagine repairing rockers on that thing. Good luck, when you get around to it- that should make an intersting Oppo post! The more DIY/project posts on here, the better.

pip bip - choose Corrour > TylerLinner 11/11/2016 at 18:09

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floor shift conversion

Rust and Dust - Oppositelock Forever > TylerLinner 11/11/2016 at 18:14

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I wish we had the space to hoard, but restoring a 57 Chevy 210, 58 Fairlane, 63 Electra 225, 70 Nova and a 70 El Camino (all stripped to nuts and bolts) has chewed up every shelf and corner for storage I can find in the shop lol.

TylerLinner > pip bip - choose Corrour 11/11/2016 at 18:22

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no

TylerLinner > Rust and Dust - Oppositelock Forever 11/11/2016 at 18:23

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That’s insanity, lol. I hope you tried to give it away on CL first.